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Thread: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

  1. #1 30th March 2015 
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    Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Hello,

    I have read through these forums for a number of years and found the info gathered/ questions answered extremely helpful and educational. it is with regret that I find myself coming to the forums looking for an answer to a question that does not seem to have been answered anywhere and to be frank, i'm not sure it will. having that said, I would appreciate any info/studies/fact or intelligent input anyone provides. Thanks in advance guy and galls.

    Ok to begin with i would consider myself to be a long time/heavy user of melanotan 2( since summer 2012). I first read about on bodybuilding forums and through websites like this, and so decided id give it a go a few years back. At first it was a godsend, I myself (whom is a skin type 1) found it amazing. I achieved a deep tan and all was grand for a few months. I let the tan fade and resumed a month or two later.

    After a while I started to notice white patches on the backs of my legs though. They became increasingly numerous so i looked up what they could possibly be. Idiopathic guttate hypomelanosis, vitiligo, and tinea versicolour were/are the possibilities. Due to the shape i assume they are IGH. This is where the number of melanocytes in the skin reduces, normally through age. Around this time I had switched supplier (not through choice) and had come across what i assumed was extermely pure mt2. I thought this because after 1 jab of 500mcgs in the evening, i would be noticeably more tanned the following morning (up to about three days after) without using a tanning bed - And i'm naturally skin type 1! So i would jab every three days and have a slight tan, also my hair was much darker and thicker than natural.

    I had noticed I had twitching, joint pain and if i bruised, it would stay for a very long time. I thought nothing of this however. (i now think this could be due to my immune system fighting the drug.) This supplier stopped and i was forced to look elsewhere. I tried the same approach using different types of suppliers but it just didnt give the same results. So i would use either 1mg every other day or .5mcg every day up until a couple of weeks ago (all with no sides i might add.)

    Last week that supplier came back and i jabbed the other day. It is definitely the same stuff that allowed me to tan every three days with only a 500mcg dose and nothing else.
    Only this time it's after sending my body into attack mode. I can literally feel it attacking my melanoctyes. They twitch and then a day later and i have these white spots where they were.

    My hypothesis is that i hadn't in fact got extremely pure mt2 from that supplier but the opposite?

    I'm thinking the reason that its able to tan me/darken my hair far more than other types of melanotan id that my body can't remove it quick enough. So while my body had been used to taking pure mt2 that it could clear out of my system quickly, (and thus have weaker effects) it was sent into an autoimmune response when i jabbed the other (stronger affecting) stuff?
    I think my body is now attacking my melanocytes because they are flooded with this type of mt2?

    Iv'e looked up drug induced Hypomelanosis but nothing has come up really.
    Any help is appreciated.





  2. #2 30th March 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Hello,

    I have read through these forums for a number of years and found the info gathered/ questions answered extremely helpful and educational. it is with regret that I find myself coming to the forums looking for an answer to a question that does not seem to have been answered anywhere and to be frank, i'm not sure it will. having that said, I would appreciate any info/studies/fact or intelligent input anyone provides. Thanks in advance guy and galls.

    Ok to begin with i would consider myself to be a long time/heavy user of melanotan 2 (since summer 2012). I first read about on bodybuilding forums and through websites like this, and so decided id give it a go a few years back. At first it was a godsend, I myself (whom is a skin type 1) found it amazing. I achieved a deep tan and all was grand for a few months. I let the tan fade and resumed a month or two later.
    Thank you for registering and posting footsandwich!

    After a while I started to notice white patches on the backs of my legs though. They became increasingly numerous so i looked up what they could possibly be. Idiopathic guttate hypomelanosis, vitiligo, and tinea versicolour were/are the possibilities. Due to the shape i assume they are IGH. This is where the number of melanocytes in the skin reduces, normally through age. Around this time I had switched supplier (not through choice) and had come across what i assumed was extremely pure mt2. I thought this because after 1 jab of 500mcgs in the evening, i would be noticeably more tanned the following morning (up to about three days after) without using a tanning bed - And i'm naturally skin type 1! So i would jab every three days and have a slight tan, also my hair was much darker and thicker than natural.
    Initial question in mind is if you had used an unsanitary sunbed at a salon? Have you ruled out fungus being responsible for your white spots and/or used nizoral (ketoconazole)?

    I discount the possibility that an injection of melanotan 2 can yield a noticeable tan in less than 12 hours time...and in no way would relate the results to product purity.

    I had noticed I had twitching, joint pain and if i bruised, it would stay for a very long time. I thought nothing of this however. (i now think this could be due to my immune system fighting the drug.) This supplier stopped and i was forced to look elsewhere. I tried the same approach using different types of suppliers but it just didnt give the same results. So i would use either 1mg every other day or .5mcg every day up until a couple of weeks ago (all with no sides i might add.)

    Last week that supplier came back and i jabbed the other day. It is definitely the same stuff that allowed me to tan every three days with only a 500mcg dose and nothing else.
    Only this time it's after sending my body into attack mode. I can literally feel it attacking my melanoctyes. They twitch and then a day later and i have these white spots where they were.

    My hypothesis is that i hadn't in fact got extremely pure mt2 from that supplier but the opposite?

    I'm thinking the reason that its able to tan me/darken my hair far more than other types of melanotan id that my body can't remove it quick enough. So while my body had been used to taking pure mt2 that it could clear out of my system quickly, (and thus have weaker effects) it was sent into an autoimmune response when i jabbed the other (stronger affecting) stuff?
    I think my body is now attacking my melanocytes because they are flooded with this type of mt2?

    Iv'e looked up drug induced Hypomelanosis but nothing has come up really.
    Any help is appreciated.
    A concern of mine is your high dosage. 1000mcg (1mg) of MT-2 sure interferes with my diet/satiety signalling...were you staying hydrated & nourished while dosing at such levels?
    Every time I start a new vial and/or cycle of melanotan peptides, I make sure to dose low and frequently as to work with the tachyphylaxis (rapid decreased response to side effects).
    Well wishes your way, hopefully someone at Melanotan Forum will be able to shed light on your situation - must be extremely frightening to feel your melanocytes in action/inaction.
  3. #3 30th March 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Thanks for the reply!

    I have tried Nizoral shampoo and cream on my right arm and kept my left free as a control. I saw no reduction however. the pattterning of the patches are more consistent with IGH from what i can gather. I haven't taken an oral anti-fungal as i read these* cutaneous fungi will stop with topical creams alone due to them being superficial.
    Also, the progression, (started backs of legs, then arms then hands,- now possibly neck!)

    I understand you might find it hard to comprehend that I achieved (what i consider a tan) with a 500 mcg jab in the way i have done. I must remind you that i'm a naturally skin type 1 and at the extreme end of the scale in my estimation. I have fair hair and blue eyes and would be paler than a lot of ginger haired individuals. I am not your average skin type 1. I would go from what looks like a person devoid of life to a person with a normal skin tone (the far end of fitzpatrick type 1/ beginning of type 2). I consider it a tan relative to what to what my skin looks like without it but not a deep tan in the sense you're thinking of i assume.

    I've dosed high and long and only had this reaction when using the melanotan that gave me those results. iv'e always had little to no side effects from mt2. I have noticed that with different batches comes different sides and regular effects. The type of mt2 that gives me that "tan" hardly affects my erections, only slightly, whereas the type that has a negligble effect on my "sunless tanning" (that's what i'll call it) has an extreme, near immediate effect on my erections. And yes i'm sure I wasn't sent Pt-141 instead lol.

    I have thought about it and it makes some sense to me to think that if my body became accustomed to a standard of purity at such high doses for such a lomg time, it identified this impure melanotan as a threat and is removing it at its areas of affect ie every part of my skin. Iv'e read up that inflamation (my immune response) is a listed cause of depigmentation. Normally, vitaligo but in my case what looks like "agressive" Guttate hypomelanosis. (that's what i'll call it).

    I have heard many other people report slow healing and other indications of an impact on there immune system whilst using this peptide. I'm just curious to see if anyone else found it impacted there immune system to the extent it has to me.
  4. #4 30th March 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    I follow you ft, thanks again for the context! I am of the opinion that which regards to cyclic peptide melanotan 2, MT-2 = MT-2 (unsure that variances in purity or substandard/incomplete/inadequate peptide synthesis would equate to such effects - of course I am all ears to those experts out there, hopeful we may reach them). It's been about a decade I have been experimenting with MT-2 and I can say with assurance the effects have remained consistent in my case (using many batches/suppliers). Appreciate any topics/information with regards to the impact on immune systems...don't recall encountering reports often. What has a dermatologist had to say or do you plan on visiting with a specialist?
  5. #5 30th March 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    I also have Guttate hypomelanosis (diagnosed) since using MT2. Mainly on legs. Never had it before. Maybe the melanocyte experience too much "overdrive" and die.
  6. #6 2nd April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    (apologies for the essay's but this matters a lot to me)


    Thanks for the reply Sobol. I'm thinking the same thing in terms of them being burned out. I'd like to ask you a few q's if I could. Firstly are you skin type 1 as well? Second, have you stopped using mt2 since you were diagnosed? and third have you looked up any treatments/ had your dermatologist recommended anything? I ask because i'm a student and can't afford to visit a dermatologist, (priorities are somewhat skewed i'm aware lol). But really, in Ireland you need to go to your gp, which is 50 euro then get referred to a dermatologist which could run into the hundreds. It's money i simply don't have. I do plan to visit one once I have enough money though.

    I've scoured through some pubmed documents online and found an effective treatment for IGH* -

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22646755

    Iv'e read about these co2 lasers and the list of the skin disorders/cosmetic procedures they treat is astounding. So there's definitely a "cure" in the near future. The cost (in Ireland anyway) is above my paygrade though for the time being, so i'm all ears as to what your dermatologist recommended if anything, thanks in advance.

    "melanotan" I myself thought the same as it doesn't seem logical that one batch could trigger my immune response more so than another but it definitely has. I found this article about melanotan and peptide synthesis in general which you've probably read yourself.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132097293

    "Why is purity so important? One of the primary reasons that purity is so important is that over time one can develop an allergy to non-melanotan peptide substances found in vials and subsequently not be able to use such vials having such impurities (even in very small quantities). "

    "melanotan II is a foreign substance to the body, it invokes an immune system response akin to an allergic reaction. Many of the so-called side-effects you have either heard about or experienced yourself are due to an abundant overdose of melanotan II in your blood"

    I think the first time i jabbed the suspect batch around a year ago my body reacted to it. Whether it be the possible mannitol it contains or the synthesis of the peptide itself. I noticed my IGH accelerate, my joints worsen - particularly my knees and spots on my face/cuts would be noticeably slow to heal and stay for a very long time. I'm not sure how valid a source that article is but it does say that a peptide can still be recognised by the body at a purity of 95% leaving 5% of impurity on the peptide chain itself. This could be a possible antigen for the immune system. So, after the first use of that suspect batch my body reacted and produced antibodies. Then when my body was reintroduced to it recently it might have released these antibodies to remove it and as it would have been saturated in my melanocytes, could have given an autoimmune effect, destroying the melanocytes.

    I do understand that the article is a few years old, I also understand that someone with the name "melanotan" and over 1,500 posts probably knows a good bit more about the peptide than myself haha. Having that said I had these sort of twitching symptoms whilst I had that batch the first time and they've recurred again having jabbed what I assume is the same product this time (bought form the same supplier). I hope I haven't come across as rude as i'm definitely not trying to be! lol
    I just want to put my thoughts across and truly appreciate any reply or input.
  7. #7 2nd April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Please see a dr. footsandwich, post a gofundme here if it helps! Definitely enjoy the dialogue and wish to seek a healthy resolution asap. The bb.com link has disastrous information which is completely bogus and should not be a basis for your concern(s). Mannitol filler is a drummed up fantasy pitched by a seller/administrator who uses fear to capture sales (and link bait)...it's never once been proven truthful.
  8. #8 3rd April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    I've stopped using melanotan for about a week now and that's probably the longest i have been off of it for around a years time. The IGH seems to keep progressing though and i don't know what to do. It has now started on my face around my cheekbone area, corners of my mouth and parts of my forehead. I agree i need to go to a dermatologist asap but I haven't a cent to my name. the last i thing i bought was 5 vials of melanotan 2 and now they're just sitting there, wasted money considering my situation now. And i don't think selling them is a viable option.

    I had a look at that gofundme you suggested melanotan, and although what I'm facing is a psychological kick to the balls (it is deeply affecting me) it's just not on par with what iv'e seen is being crowdfunded on that website. I couldn't accept money from that site knowing that some child/chronically ill person is needing it so much more.

    So I'm back to the drawing board. I appreciate anybody reading this thread is probably screaming "Just go to a DERMATOLOGIST!" But I'm literally broke now and for the foreseeable future. I'm finished the college year soon and will try source money for a derma somehow. I've been quoted online for 150 - 200 quid.. Just for one consultation!

    In the mean time if there's anybody that has visited a dermatologist with IGH/similar symptoms please comment. I just need as much info, suggestions/ possible solutions that i can get. If there's a specialist or someone qualified reading as well your input would be invaluable.

    I applied some corticosteroid creme to the patches as i read that is a common treatment to slow the progression of IGH but i'm not holding my breath.

    thanks for all the replies and thanks in advance (hopefully) for the ones to come.
  9. #9 3rd April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Thanks for the posts fs. I am type 1 and had this on my legs but did not know what it was. I assumed it was just natural and never visible before I actually tanned for the first time in my life. I looked it up and it's reassuring to see it is benign. For me this is a small price to pay for being able to tolerate sunshine.
  10. #10 4th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    No prob Daryl and likewise for the reply
    I too was of the opinion that it was a tiny price to pay as i could actually get a tan and stay in the sun for longer than 30 seconds haha. My (what i assume is) IGH started in that* pattern as well though and things have been downhill from there. If it had stayed to confined to my legs I would have been happy as larry, but this condition progresses. When it started to appear on my hands i started to regret my decision to have used mt2. Now it's on my face I don't know what i'm going to do. I'm certainly not one to scare monger - in fact i still believe that mt2 is 99.9% safe/effective, I'm just saying there's always that 0.1% of people that have a bogus reaction or have conditions exasperated by it's use. It just sucks when you realise you're in that 0.1%. What I'm getting at is although i'm an extremity, if it can happen to me it can happen to others.
  11. #11 4th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    FS, I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing your concerns. However, you have only been off of MT2 for a week or so. I think you should wait at least several weeks before you decide this might be permanent. Since it is benign there is no medically urgent reason to get to a dermatologist. I'd suggest you do this if the condition doesn't start receding after a couple months.

    I just started up again after being off for 4 months. I will pay attention to see if this starts getting more pronounced. Hang in there and keep us posted about your condition.
  12. #12 5th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    I understand and don't think you are being dismissive Daryl. I have to point out though that these patches are the same as the ones found on my legs and arms which have been there for well over a year if not longer, so i'm fairly certain they're permanent. They do not tan and they do not recede. I do agree that it is not a medical emergency, it's cosmetic. It's just the speed at which it has progressed i feel warrants a medical evaluation as soon as i can.

    Thanks for the well wishes man and good luck with the tanning.
  13. #13 6th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    I understand and don't think you are being dismissive Daryl. I have to point out though that these patches are the same as the ones found on my legs and arms which have been there for well over a year if not longer, so i'm fairly certain they're permanent. They do not tan and they do not recede. I do agree that it is not a medical emergency, it's cosmetic. It's just the speed at which it has progressed i feel warrants a medical evaluation as soon as i can.

    Thanks for the well wishes man and good luck with the tanning.
    If you are student you should just get help from your parents, or not? Iīm a bit surprised nobody mentioned that here yet.
    I would say that if you got in these troubles, then family is the first who should help you, moreover if you donīt earn (enough) money yet. As you said you need money and then some medical check.

    Please donīt try to become doctor by reading internet articles and doing some experiments or creating your own theories/hypothesis (no offense) when it comes to something as complex as human body is. It is more than obvious you need help/consultancy from specialist. That is the only right thing to do. I can totally understand it can be a bit unpleasant but all people should be brave enough and should at least try to recognize the thin line ...

    Also your problem can be very important for MT2 community despite it may be related to minority of users. I hope the community is fair and open to this kind of information as well (i.e. rather negative experience).








    *









  14. #14 7th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Hello Guffy thanks for the input

    My parents have payed for surgery I have coming up in a couple of weeks so i'm extremely reluctant to ask more of them. Especially considering it's a cosmetic problem essentially (the white marks i mean), and they've the world on their shoulders at the moment. It is looking like the only option I have though but I can't stress how much I don't want to bother them with more stuff.

    I understand I may come across as somewhat foolhardy in terms of me hypothesizing what i might or might not be. I don't think it is futile however I just want as much info/input and opinion on what i'm describing.

    I appreciate the fact that this is a potential concern for other users and is one of the reasons i decided to post in the first place bar the obvious. I have noticed that some people (similar to most bodybuilding/peptide forums) flame others who go against the popular belief on the forum. In this case people purporting to have had adverse reactions to mt2.
    * I'm glad to say that so far nobody has done so to me publicly or privately. Having that said I understand they're logic as it too annoys me to see some fool claim his arm fell off whilst he happened to be using mt2, therefore mt2 caused it. The correlation is causation brigade i'll call them. I can assure I don't fall into this category so i'm confident the community will be fair and open minded as to what this might be and its causes as will I.

    Now the symptoms.
    Iv'e noticed a considerable improvement in my joints now that iv'e ceased using. the bruising around my knees has turned a yellow colour, like an old bruise which is good i'm thinking. The spots have also nearly come to a stop in terms of them spreading compared to the flare up last week. the maccules on my face/neck area (the freshest ones) are continuing to lose there colour though so although they're not spreading much anymore they do look as if they're going to progress to having no pigment at all. The contrast between my face and the white spots is annoying but the fact they've almost stopped spreading is a real relief.
  15. #15 7th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Ok, it is quite surprising for me that healthcare system in Ireland works this way. I mean it is understandable that insurance might not cover some cosmetic procedure but if you pay substantial amount only for consulting with your normal Doc + dermatologist ...

    From what I read I would not "blame" MT2 ("destruction of melanocytes from MT2") as the cause because it looks to me that it is rather consequence of tanned skin and genetical predispositions (it is reported IGH is typical for fair-skinned and is a result of UV exposure = exactly what majority folks here are and what they do to get some color).

    Anyway good luck and keep all posted!



  16. #16 8th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Ye the Irish healthcare system is a joke really. We're the dearest market in Europe for medicines/pharmaceuticals even though we manufacture a considerable percentage of them. Our doctors and professionals aren't much different, the whole health service here is extortion unfortunately.

    You forgot "possible" in your quote guffy haha. I have also kept my uv exposure to a* bare minimum and i have these spots on non-sun exposed areas. So i'm aware that UV is a listed cause, but in my case i think there is more at play. If it was solely from UV the spots would not have manifested in these covered parts.

    Thanks man and will do ]
  17. #17 9th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Hi,
    I first used MT2 in 2008\2009. I have type 1 skin-type. after about 2 months I suffered from allergic reactions that got worsen each cycle. I continue to use it, despite the allergic responds- I loved the tan it gave me. I tried about 5\6 different sources of MT1\2, and I couldn't tolerate any type of MT. I searched all over the internet and talked with many users from the old MT forum- then I realize that there are many users like me that suffering from different levels of allergic symptoms. In addition, I had these white spots-IGH, and it become more and more dominant. I noticed that I'm becoming like a Dalmatian dog and after about 3 years of cycles (with many stops during the usage)- I finally leave the MT usage.

    since then, I still reading and waiting for something new to developed. I'm sure that my body reject this peptide and the white spots are due to allergic respond of my body. I can tell you that some of the white spots have got better over the years, but not all of them. anyway, its not so noticeable without a tan, so I don't mind.

    right now(actually, since last summer) , I'm thinking about trying again MT2, after about 4 years(!) without it. if I will try it again, I will do it through the nasal method with protocol of really (really) tiny doses, with many doses each days- I will simply mimic protocols that trying to overcome allergic responds. There is a chance that in this way my body will accept the peptide. in this case, I believe that there will be much less (if any) white spots.
    *
  18. #18 9th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Here are some pictures from my last MT2 cycle: you can definitely see the White spots:
  19. #19 9th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    it looks better in different lighting :
  20. #20 25th April 2015 
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    Re: Possible destruction of melanocytes from Mt2

    Apologies for the late response Nargilyos!
    I only saw the pictures you posted when i clicked into the thread a week ago, i didn't see your reply!

    I've been reading online, through the forums and have noticed it seems people with skin type 1 are most prone to these responses. Iv'e stopped for a couple of weeks now and i can't describe how strange my skin looks. It has gone a sort of jaundice colour and looks extremely greasy but is bone dry. It looks terrible!

    I naturally have very thin skin i would say and melanotan thickens skin drastically. I have a feeling that this thickening/thinning cycle of when i use and i when i don't could accelerate these white spots as IGH manifests in older people with thinning skin.*

    Could you describe the allergy symptoms please? I'm really curious! Also would you mind taking a picture of where the white spots are on your skin now just so i can see the difference? Also i find it hard to see them in the pics you posted but i don't doubt you have them as the camera isn't effective in capturing just how noticeable mine are as well

    I'm not sure the nasal delivery method is effective tbh but i'd love to know how you get on as you seem to be in a similar, albeit less progressed situation to me.

    I was on clinuvels website today and noticed something called cuv9900? could be promising.